tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8687643215117543088.post4003924412095455838..comments2023-12-21T23:44:40.324+13:00Comments on Maui Street: Why National Standards won't help MaoriMorgan Godferyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16151402259122819244noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8687643215117543088.post-35508664920729840382012-09-29T12:10:19.053+12:002012-09-29T12:10:19.053+12:00I agree with Turia. I found it interesting to see ...I agree with Turia. I found it interesting to see on the news teachers from low decile schools saying children come into their schools way behind - so they're expecting already that they won't reach the standards? All children should be expected to reach or exceed these standards no matter what. Sick of teachers using students backgrounds as an excuse. I'm all for National Standards (and I'm a teacher!), schools and teachers need to start being held accountable. If you want a good rep, then reach the standards. Put the effort in, I dont expect any student in NZ to not reach or exceed what's been outlined as being their 'level'. Students with learning difficulties are the exception, however, and should not be used in overall school measurements.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8687643215117543088.post-36126940299053478702012-09-27T09:15:39.832+12:002012-09-27T09:15:39.832+12:00Um, I don't think I would hold with a decile w...Um, I don't think I would hold with a decile weighting (why?), but do I understand we would both agree a 'fair' standardised comparison would be desirable? <br /><br />I don't know if you've seen economist Eric Crampton's post on the first regressions with the data released: http://offsettingbehaviour.blogspot.co.nz/2012/09/education-regressions.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+OffsettingBehaviour+%28Offsetting+Behaviour%29<br /><br />It makes interesting reading. But as you said, the problem will always be comparing like with like.<br /><br />CheersMark Hubbardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02541153163041831880noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8687643215117543088.post-12110583097986446362012-09-27T08:58:12.706+12:002012-09-27T08:58:12.706+12:00I assume so. I know when I was at primary school (...I assume so. I know when I was at primary school (about 10 years ago) my results were in my term reports. <br /><br />I don't think national standards will be any better in determining the causes of underachievement. Looking at the data we know poor results are concentrated in poor areas. We already knew this. But we have to be very careful extrapolating anything from the standards. The standards aren't standardised, so different schools are using different standards. They aren't moderated, so we don't know whether marking is consistent. They aren't weighted for decile either. There are so many problems with using the data that they are useless in their current form. That could change, I hope it does, but there seems to be no indication that the government plan on doing so. <br /><br />Morgan Godferyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16151402259122819244noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8687643215117543088.post-42169516804030265132012-09-27T08:39:25.614+12:002012-09-27T08:39:25.614+12:00Are STAR assessments or PAT tests shared with pare...Are STAR assessments or PAT tests shared with parents? (I assume so).<br /><br />Surely there must be value in have some type of cross-school measure, which is not directed at teachers, but simply in order causes of 'under-achievement' might be studied? Because if there are clusters of same, there must be a cause, and then the education system can at least start remedying causes.Mark Hubbardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02541153163041831880noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8687643215117543088.post-49199595929020944182012-09-27T08:28:38.531+12:002012-09-27T08:28:38.531+12:00So no, there is no contradiction. So no, there is no contradiction. Morgan Godferyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16151402259122819244noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8687643215117543088.post-18468108469756479672012-09-27T08:27:53.216+12:002012-09-27T08:27:53.216+12:00That goes to the heart of much of the criticism ag...That goes to the heart of much of the criticism against National Standards - it's a solution looking for a problem. We already have accurate measurement systems in place, for example the STAR assessments or the PAT tests. Using these assessment tools (and there are others) we can determine who the underachieving kids are. Even without these tools it's a safe bet to say most teachers know who is underachieving without having to reference some arbitrary national standard or a STAR test. Morgan Godferyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16151402259122819244noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8687643215117543088.post-65322593345927682122012-09-27T08:14:08.429+12:002012-09-27T08:14:08.429+12:00But surely your last paragraph contradicts all bef...But surely your last paragraph contradicts all before it. I had this same debate with Martyn Bradbury: you say the money would be better spent helping the underachievers, however, how do you plan to pinpoint these students if you have no measuring system in place?Mark Hubbardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02541153163041831880noreply@blogger.com