tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8687643215117543088.post4930743811846230504..comments2023-12-21T23:44:40.324+13:00Comments on Maui Street: "Is New Zealand a racist country?"Morgan Godferyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16151402259122819244noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8687643215117543088.post-28079475804910745802013-10-11T23:32:48.930+13:002013-10-11T23:32:48.930+13:00were used to be in the 1880s, 1920s ,30s because ...were used to be in the 1880s, 1920s ,30s because of fascist groups <br />defiantly not now thoughsamuelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8687643215117543088.post-13087125370804596722013-04-25T18:15:00.972+12:002013-04-25T18:15:00.972+12:00Interesting this one. I'm from a reasonable s...Interesting this one. I'm from a reasonable sized whanau. A number of my siblings are brown and some of us are 'whiter' in skin colour (me). Pakeha say things to me that they would never say to my brown skinned siblings. I hate the 'r' word and very rarely use it. But, and with sadness, I have to admit to myself that racisim is alive and well in this country.<br /><br />I am of a right wing persuasion and generally a lot of what is passed off as racism is just plain not taking the opportunity by our people. But I can't pretend there is no racism. It is there and my right wing lot are not saintly. I suppose I can rest more comfortably with my political choice when I remind myself that the so-called friend of Maori, the Labour Party, sold us out in 2004 with their racist F&S legislation. It was politically expedient and I will never forgive the 'hater's and wreckers' comment.<br /><br />My encounter with racism is this nonsense idea from Pakeha (predominantly) that argue we get preferential treatment. Actually, on reflection, they are right. We Maori do get preferential treatment. We get to preferentially:<br />- Have our lands stripped from us, our economic base destroyed, and our social fabric torn asunder and not three generations later be told 'to get over it'<br />- be told that the feeble attempts to redress the gross injustice heaped on Maori for at least 3 generations are too much and that we are causing social division<br />- Have decisions to marry Pakeha thrown back in our faces as having caused us to no longer be Maori<br />- be arrested disproporionally<br />- be more likely to appear in court than our Pakeha brothers for the SAME offense<br />- be more likely to be imprisoned for the SAME offense<br />- be given longer prison sentences for the SAME offense<br />- be far less likely to be promoted to management even with the same qualifications<br />- Not feature on most directorships in this country (e.g. only 5% of board memebers on sporting bodies for goodness sake)<br />- be told we are not experienced enough and then ensure the opportunity to get experienced is denied through not being experienced enough (ad nausem right)<br />- be more unemployed than our pakeha people<br />- be sneeringly told that there is an inherent lazy streak in our people hence our lack of employment<br />- be told by our Iwi organisations that it's about 'best person for the job' (look at the number of pakeha on our asset management boards) and then throw our hands up in horror at the appalling Maori employment statistics<br />- be represented in all the worst social, health, and economic statistics in this country<br /><br />If this preference I would agree with Pakeha that we need less of it. <br /><br />Hey pakeha, stop preferring us. It hurts!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8687643215117543088.post-30470209294205823262013-04-25T00:18:42.407+12:002013-04-25T00:18:42.407+12:00nz is not hatefull but we can learn to love each o...nz is not hatefull but we can learn to love each other more<br />and make society betterAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8687643215117543088.post-430089688529107052013-04-24T17:21:21.364+12:002013-04-24T17:21:21.364+12:00My observations as someone who is of mixed ethnic ...My observations as someone who is of mixed ethnic background, is that there is a racist bent common across most sectors of our community. The easiest to identify is the prejudice against asian immigrants (against a lack of such for, say, British ones) and Maori. Racism in this country presents itself in three forms, out-an-out Prosser style-stuff, institutional racism, and the issue-framing of subjects with an ethnic component (Treaty issues being the classic case). Where concepts which are pretty uncontestable, like the right to seek resolution through the courts (F/S ; Ngati Apa v A-G), if there's an ethnic component certain groups will frame it as a purely ethnic-issue -- even when the primary issue is something quite apart. Instituional racism is similarly disheartening, in that signficant evidence exists of a problem (like your post the other day, Morgan re; Police), but there is an aversion to declare causality because the status-quo is comfortable for the majority (despite the gross inefficiency such prejudice leads to in terms of, say, Vote Justice expenditure.<br /><br />The Prosser-style racism is the stuff I run into everyday, and actually is the kind which least concerns me - generally I find it's the result of ignorance (which can be remedied easily) and / or a void in that individual's sense of self and thus a complex they hold regarding other cultures. On this last point, I would have to say there is no clear group who are guilty; my european friends are just as bad as my maori, p.i. or asian ones. While it's an undesirable feature of the New Zealand psyche, I also think it's more a result of the other two than the cause. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8687643215117543088.post-27946661877867057612013-04-24T15:52:45.627+12:002013-04-24T15:52:45.627+12:00I think the only really robust answer to the quest...I think the only really robust answer to the question 'is New Zealand racist' is that not everyone can agree on the definitions of 'New Zealand' and 'racist'. 'Is' is pretty uncontroversial, thankfully. (Sorry, Bill Clinton)<br /><br />I will say though, if, for a country to be racist, a majority of the people living there need to be self-conscious racists, I don't think there's ever been a racist country in the history of the human race.Hughhttp://www.tvgohome.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8687643215117543088.post-84781397814538794202013-04-24T13:17:07.248+12:002013-04-24T13:17:07.248+12:00The racism in New Zealand starts with Treaty hate ...The racism in New Zealand starts with Treaty hate and within the Treaty hate industry business is booming. People have formed careers on Treaty hate John Ansell, Muriel Newman and many more.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8687643215117543088.post-52905040236213823552013-04-24T09:57:50.660+12:002013-04-24T09:57:50.660+12:00The moot is problematic. Do we take "is NZ a ...The moot is problematic. Do we take "is NZ a racist country" as asking whether a majority of NZders are racist or does it ask something different like is there systemic/institutional/etc racism in NZ?. Part of the fun (is that the right word?) of the debate will be to twist the moot to suit. <br /><br />Say we take the "is NZ society racist" angle, then we get into questions of whether we need intention to be racist and so on. It's such a difficult question to grapple with. I don't think I have all of the answers. Morgan Godferyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16151402259122819244noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8687643215117543088.post-4924245544271215192013-04-24T00:48:26.956+12:002013-04-24T00:48:26.956+12:00If racism is ingrained in society to that degree t...If racism is ingrained in society to that degree that it comes out spontaneously, isn't that about as good a definition of 'New Zealand is racist' as one could hope for?Hughhttp://www.tvgohome.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8687643215117543088.post-79006442414597406922013-04-23T12:12:59.041+12:002013-04-23T12:12:59.041+12:00There is a seedy underbelly of racism and hate - c...There is a seedy underbelly of racism and hate - cloaked in "racial equality" and similar language. It's a load of horseshit and it stinks to the high heavens. However, it's driven by a puny minority. I think most New Zealanders aren't racist. A lot of New Zealanders engage in and perpetuate accidental racism (e.g. stereotyping or, as a more specific example, calling thrifty people "Jews") but I believe that most New Zealanders do so because it is engrained in society rather than a reflection of their disdain for other races. Of course, there are some New Zealanders who just hate other races - but they're not a majority. Morgan Godferyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16151402259122819244noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8687643215117543088.post-56043250313356618972013-04-23T08:35:36.535+12:002013-04-23T08:35:36.535+12:00If you’re a fully subscribed pure member of the Br...If you’re a fully subscribed pure member of the British Diaspora you will never experience racism. Can you recollect the last news article that was “Pakeha this and Pakeha that” unlike negative Maori articles that happen consistently on a weekly basis.Good post Morgan my opinion on this subject is not so moderate. I think their is a racist war in New Zealand between the Treaty hate movement and Maori. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8687643215117543088.post-41410390457604305932013-04-22T19:03:26.616+12:002013-04-22T19:03:26.616+12:00Yes it is.Yes it is.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8687643215117543088.post-55990984455057721532013-04-22T11:40:47.202+12:002013-04-22T11:40:47.202+12:00If we're trying to define discrimination legal...If we're trying to define discrimination legally, Quilter isn't definitive. However, for guidance on the essence and character of discrimination I think Quilter is pretty helpful. <br /><br />As a matter of s19 BORA intepretation, I prefer the Tipping approach (i.e. any differential treatment is discrimination). S5 should do the justification work. Defining the breach of s19 narrowly (i.e. any distinction that isn't justified) means that the claimant has to build arguments against justification into the way they frame the s19 breach. That seems to impose a pretty big burden when the burden of justification should always fall on the AG. <br /><br />Having said that, the international jurisprudence seems split. If I remember correctly the Canadian approach is to build justifications (or lack of) into how the breach is framed rather than relying on s1 to do all of the heavy lifting. Discrimination is defined more narrowly. Morgan Godferyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16151402259122819244noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8687643215117543088.post-85394974310504816722013-04-22T11:28:12.339+12:002013-04-22T11:28:12.339+12:00Can't we just all agree that the discussion of...Can't we just all agree that the discussion of discrimination in Quilter is unhelpful, and that any differential treatment is discrimination, but that the question of legal importance is whether that differential treatment/discrimination is a reasonable limit on the right to be free from discrimination, in the same way as other rights.<br /><br />Courts seem to have no difficulty with accepting that child porn laws are a limit on freedom of discrimination, but one that is justified, can't they also just say "this is discrimination, but it is justified"?Graeme Edgelerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03928755583921638414noreply@blogger.com